Friday, March 30, 2007

Adoption and Controlling Parents

Currently zipping through "If You Had Controlling Parents" by Dan Neuharth. Excellent BTW.

Took the test designed to "measure the prevalence and control in childhood and identify whether you may be facing adult-life problems because of it."

Checked "yes" to 49 out of 65. I guess that means I more than qualify. Twenty-two positives means you most likely came from a controlling family of which eight "styles" are listed: Smothering, Depriving, Perfectionist, Cultlike, Chaotic, Using, Abusing and Childlike.

Accordingingly, my adoptive mother was both Smothering and Depriving while my adoptive father was (and still is) Using and Childlike. Both a-parents experienced major trauma as children (alcoholic father, physical abuse, emotionally abusive mother, witnessing the suicide of a parent).

Skipping ahead to the chapter on adult-life legacies of such an unbringing, it seems I'm a strong candidate for the Poster Adult of Growing up Controlled. Sheesh.

Some of the damage I clearly recognize: the splintering of self, numbing out, putting others first (always), difficulty in expressing anger or resentment (okay, in real life, not in this blog where I can safely vent), feeling used, poor self-image, difficulty in developing good emotional and self care habits.

What's interesting is how so many of these "issues" mirror those experienced by so many adoptees. Oh, right. I'm one of those, too.

Which raises an interesting question.

Are adoptive parents more likely to be controlling? While they may not have experienced trauma as children, many experienced a profound trauma as an infertile couple.

What percentage of my "challenges" stem from being adopted? What percentage from having Extreme Controlling Parents?

I'm in my mid-forties and I've yet to utter more than five words put together before my a-father cuts me off and switches the subject back to himself. He whines and complains and babbles on and my job is to listen and give support. He's never acknowledged a single feeling I've ever had. He brought my a-mom to visit when my second daughter was born and didn't tell me my a-mother had developed Alzheimers, then expected me to take care of my a-mom, a 20-month-old toddler and a newborn. Only recently I realized how horrible that was because that sort of disregard for me as a person was, well, standard practice.

Do adoptees who have more "issues" beyond (significant!) identity, development and the Primal Wound (sheesh, aren't those enough!), have them because their adoptive parents were so darned controlling?

68 Comments:

Anonymous Mom2One said...

"Are adoptive parents more likely to be controlling?" Interesting question. Of course, my first impulse is to say, "gosh, I hope not!"

For previous generations, though, I wonder. There wouldn't have been as much awareness of how infertility impacted people, and people wouldn't have been able to talk about it as freely as you can today. You know? -- one of those things that a couple would have to be "hush-hush" about, a shameful thing, whereas today I know I didn't care much who knew and I was in therapy to deal with issues stemming from infertility and treatment that I was going through. Not everybody does that, of course, but that being one of the craziest times in my life, I found it helpful.

Also, I wonder if, since infertility leaves people feeling so damned out of control, that some couples (not all, but some) might overcompensate somewhat once they do become parents. Either that, or they "hover" to some extent since it took so much to have a family.

Interesting thoughts though. Hasn't anyone done a study on this stuff? ;)

And BTW, you really really have to check this out:
http://justenjoyhim.wordpress.com/2007/03/30/humbled-and-honored-thinking-blogger-award/

You'll like it; I promise :).

~ Judy

10:32 AM  
Blogger Nina said...

Judy,

You are such an open person! And yes, I think you're right...attitudes have changed toward infertility allowing for cultural differences, of course. Infertility back in the late 50s early 60's, especially amongst low income Mexican-Americans was not only shameful, but probably seen as a punishment from God. At least in my family. I was struck at the remarkable similarities between adoptees and "children" of controlling parents and wondered at the links between them.

It sounds like the way you went about dealing with infertility was just about the best possible...given the painfulness of it all. While I will never grasp the FULL impact, I got a glimpse after having 2-3 miscarriages and was in a state of crazy panic so I can understand why such behaviors as "hovering" might happen later.

12:01 PM  
Blogger Aurelia said...

You had miscarriages, Nina? Interestingly, I've seen a number of people who expand the definition of infertile to include recurrent miscarriers, even those who go on to have living children.

As for the IF stuff, well, it still carries a great deal of shame and secrecy. When even Oprah won't talk about it, you know it's the last big secret on earth.

I think infertiles who adopt without dealing with their issues of loss and grief are more controlling than those who really work through their problems first. I know there is some evidence for it, it's why UK & Australian adoption agencies require you to end treatment and go through a time period & counselling before adopting.

Not that I'll ever "get over" IF or watching my babies die, but eventually it is possible to be more at peace with it. Based on my RL observations, I have to say that people who adopt after attaining that point in their lives will be better parents.

But the fear of losing a child never really leaves, either, not totally. It's the challenge of parenting after loss & IF, no matter how the child came into your life.

2:04 PM  
Blogger Nina said...

Hi Aurelia...Don't know much about adoption practices in other countries and was interested to learn about the protocols in Australia and UK. No. I'm sorry that you lost your babies. Heartbreaking. Just to clarify, I've never thought of myself as infertile because I had some miscarriages. In fact, I've never heard of that definition before. Wow. I'm REALLY behind the times. Had no idea about the Oprah angle. Maybe one day she'll open up about it and shed some light on the subject as she has done with so many others.

5:18 PM  
Blogger Third Mom said...

This is really interesting, Nina. My guess would be that over-controlling parents occur in about the same proportion among adoptive and non-adoptive parents. I base this opinion on my experience only, though, so I'm not sure how much it's worth, LOL!

I found that adopting our son released an incredible amount of stress that I could directly tie to infertility. Once it was resolved, I felt far more in control of my life, and therefore didn't feel the need to over control our kids. In fact, I've sometimes wondered if it had the reverse effect, because there are things many parents seem to sweat that I don't.

Complicated to be sure, and very interesting. Thanks!

I'd love to find statistics that demonstrate how many infertile couples perceive the experience of infertility to be a lasting trauma. I found it to be a corker while we were going through it, but pretty much forgot it once we decided we were done. I wonder if I'm alone in this, or if others have had the same experience.

7:42 PM  
Anonymous Mom2One said...

Thanks, Nina. It's been an interesting, challenging, and rewarding journey.

Like Margie, I too "found it to be a corker while we were going through it but pretty much forgot it once we decided we were done." I do think part of this was because I had done a lot of work with therapy and working through my difficulties with the stressed involved with infertility and the losses (2 miscarriages) that I had. So Margie, you're not alone in that. Whenever people say that adoption doesn't heal infertility -- well, OK, adoption doesn't heal it per se, but since we adopted Nate I've had absolutely no desire to get pregnant. I don't care about any of that.

And I think our parenting is much like yours. If anything, we're maybe a little too relaxed. I know my family thinks that we're much too laid-back in our parenting. I'm a huge believer in choosing your battles and a lot of things just aren't worth fighting Nate over, I think. Of course, this makes for a lot of unwanted advice -- blech!

Interesting stuff.

7:50 PM  
Blogger Nina said...

Third Mom and Mom2One: I'll respond in more detail later, but I just wanted you to know that you both are an important part of my understanding and healing. That adoptees of the past and adoptive mothers of the future can engage..although, I must say, you've both listened far more. There is a part of me that asks..if only...my adoptive parents had a chance at life...hadn't been poor...hadn't had a tenth grade education...knew about the internet...what would adoption be like with an empathetic parent? You KNOW this. Empathy rules when all else fails. A simple "Oh, is that the way it is for you?" will trump advise any time. And I say that as much for myself as anybody as I have two teenage daughters!

9:42 PM  
Blogger LeRoy Dissing said...

Sometimes I wonder if people's childhood trauma, like your aparents, are so great that they do not have the capacity to empathize Nina. Heck, they are not even in touch with how to meet their own needs appropriately, much less identify them in healthy ways. And what is really pathetic is that they don't have any concept that they have any issues to deal with - its everyone else's fault. They are really into the victim role like a man in cement shoes. Your aparents didn't have a clue what your needs were nor do I think they ever gave them a second thought much less a first thought. And I am not so sure that even if they had the internet or books to read (which libraries existed back in those days) today, they would have been inclined to accept the information. I just think they were "stuck" in their own childhood trauma issues, their own victim roles. To unstick them would have taken either a divine revelation or a major crisis but not sure how much of an impact either would have on them. I don't mean to be judgemental just that history has shown the prognosis isn't good for change with parents who have personality disorders. Some change albeit slowly but most do not.

Unhealthy people make for unhealthy parents and that obviously can have a major impact on children in their care. I don't have any statistical data to support whether adoptive parents are any more controlling than non-adopting parents. I agree with Third Mom that many factors play into why parents are controlling in a unhealthy way.


Forgive my ranting...I have a funeral to go to that I am avoiding!

6:21 AM  
Anonymous Mom2One said...

Thanks, Nina, that's so nice to hear.

I don't get it right all time either, sometimes in little ways, but I try. With Nate -- just last night, I was frustrated as he wanted to watch more TV (I know, my bad), and it was time for him to brush his teeth, I was insisting, he was getting mad. First I said, "there's no reason to get mad, you've watched enough." Then I thought about it and said, "Actually, Nate, you can get mad at me, that's fine, BUT you still have to come and brush your teeth and get ready for bed."

So much of my own childhood was about not recognizing so-called "bad" emotions like anger and sadness. I've been in therapy myself for what seems like most of my adult life. I'm a huge believer in therapy IF the therapist is a good one (I've had both good and bad) and I've had plenty of issues to work through -- bad first marriage with that narcissist I mentioned, self-esteem problems from parents and from that narcissist (still dealing with that), divorce from that a-hole (in my family, we just don't get divorced, HA!) eating disorders resulting from low self-esteem and other family issues, grief from father's cancer and death, and then infertility. And I'm still in therapy and still working on things. I just refuse to pass stuff onto my son and refuse to be stuck in the unhealthy patterns of my parents, though I love them fiercely and I know they did the very best they could given what THEY had to deal with growing up. And in so many ways, they did very good jobs, but lacked in other ways.

Anyways, gosh, this is becoming a book. I have to say, in many ways I identify with a lot that you write even though I'm not an adoptee. Some of it, I can't of course, because I'm not adopted. And my parents weren't as dysfunctional as yours. WOW, yours were really really dysfunctional. But there are shades of similarities in places. The work I"ve done for 15 years, on and off, in therapy has probably saved me from a repeat performance, Thank God. And I'm just basically a Seeker -- librarian by profession. You're a Seeker too. These are such good things, to seek for information to better ourselves, to not repeat the patterns of our parents.

I know I'm going on and on but I still don't feel comfortable talking very much about family stuff on my own blog for fear that some family members might find it. I don't know if they would or not. ???

So I do it in comments. Heh.

I really appreciate your writing. And the nice, wonderful compliments. You're the best, Nina!!

~ Judy
(you have to check out a post on my blog. really. Have you yet??? It's from yesterday and mentions you.)

7:54 AM  
Blogger Julie said...

I agree that in the "old days" people were not aware of issues like infertility and their effects, and the shame and the pretense, etc., and that no doubt contributed to controlling behavior. Controlling because they were trying so hard to keep their house of cards from collapsing.

Unfortunately, I think a lot of people today adopt for the wrong reasons and so still are trying to keep their house of cards from collapsing.

I think it's been a vicious cycle, Nina, and I think it still goes in in too many cases. If only every potential PAP could be as aware and empathetic as, say, Third Mom, I might even say adoption is a good thing. But that would be "in a perfect world." Hahaha

8:39 AM  
Blogger Aurelia said...

Just coming back to say that I think I agree with Leroy that your Aparents would have been messed up even with therapy. Like my Aparents, their mental illnesses would've caused problems while raising kids even if they had all the help in the world. The kind of people I think we hope to help with our blogs are probably good people to begin with.

Oh, and as for the adoption not solving infertility angle, Mom2one and thirdmom, the reason I and others say that is because infertility is a medical problem, not just a social one involving a lack of children in the home. It can be a one off issue easily fixable, or a lifelong health problem. Too often, I worry that members of the adoption triad ignore their health history in a desperate attempt to show that 'everything is perfect.' Adoptees with no health history, birth moms who don't take care of their health due to body shame issues, and Aparents who don't find out why their If and losses happened, because 'it's over'.

Like for myself, I discovered my genetic clotting disorder is the root of my IF and miscarriages. I take aspirin, I go to the cardiologist, I am proactive on my health, but my birth mother doesn't want to know about it. my aparents never took care of their health issues and suffered greatly afterwards.

And I guess the health area is about control as well isn't it, Nina? Ahhh...did you ever get any reliable health info ever as you searched?

11:14 AM  
Anonymous mia said...

Do adoptees who have more "issues" beyond (significant!) identity, development and the Primal Wound (sheesh, aren't those enough!), have them because their adoptive parents were so darned controlling?

Absolutely. It is challenging to work through the layers that being adopted presents on it's own. We didn't learn how to do that from our parents, we had to learn it on our own.

I don't think people with parents like ours were given a safe environment to express ourselves honestly about ANYTHING, let alone adoption issues. For me; I had to actually learn how to FIND my emotions, learn how to acknowledge them AND learn how to express myself honestly. This was completely unlearned territory, a life lesson that was skipped in my house. I would think a solid foundation (expression, honesty, openness, encouragement, sense of self, respect etc...) would go a long way toward working through the issues of adoption.

4:32 PM  
Blogger Mom2One said...

Oh, sure I can see it in that way, Aurelia. Mine was "unexplained infertility" so there was no known cause. I think I just had old eggs ;p'''''''''.

4:41 PM  
Blogger Nina said...

Third Mom...Sounds like women process infertility in as many different ways as there are different personalities. CORKER. Great, descriptive term. Maybe you had that experience because you hadn't corked up your feelings...went ahead and expressed them...let them rage...then were...whew...ready to put it behind you.

LEROY...You know, I think you're onto something. Some people - despite opportunities available to them - dig in their heels and refuse to look at their behaviors and continue to blame others and expect the world to pay them back. I have an adoptive first cousin who is a MAJOR narcissist who has subjected her daughter to the most awful emotional and psychological abuse imaginable and she's been to many psychiatrists and has not made a single, small change.

Hah! Funeral avoidance!!! See, blogs are good for some things!

7:17 PM  
Anonymous bijou said...

Nina,
I don't know if we could ever find a significant link between adoption and controlling parents. I lived with an a-mother who was manic, depressed, smothering (always afraid I would be kidnapped) verbally abusive and raised me to feel guilty that she was unhappy. To this day she will remind me that God screwed her because I did not turn out like my cousins, her bio relatives. My parents divorced when I was really young (blew the 2 parent is better theory out the window), and for a while it was me and her. My mother hit me and gave me the silent treatment as punishment, but I think most of us in our 30s and 40s were hit as punishment. At 8 years old, I became the caretaker (i cooked, cleaned, etc)

I like to think of this as salt in the Primal Wound. A non adoptee would have been affected by this as well, but its somehow deeper when it affects us.

But then again when I read some of these scary dear B-mother profiles, i see these really controlling/obssessive trends popping up and I fear that these kids will also be forced to fill a whole in someone's life.

1:00 PM  
Anonymous bijou said...

BTW, Nina, in case you have not heard it today, you should feel proud to have moved forward beyond the abuse, recognize it, and decide to end it and make the future better for your family. thank you for having the courage to share this!

1:04 PM  
Blogger Nina said...

Judy, First, thank you so very much for including me on your list in your blog. I so greately appreciate it and it's a great boost, especially as I've just begun a writing project that I'm determined to finish. I LOVE the term Seeker. It's so positive and hopeful that if we are open to learning new ways "to be" and work toward becoming a mindful, conscious parent, that we can not only not repeat the bad stuff, but seek to DO better through action...whether that's allowing Nate to get angry that he can't continue to watch TV, but still act like a parent and get him to brush his teeth. The fact that you were able to rethink this small interaction between you and your son is what it's all about. It's one TV vs. Brushing Your Teeth challenge at a time!

AURELIA! A genetic clotting disorder that's responsible for infertility, etc.? I'm sorry. That sounds both serious and rough. Before I met my mother, I had no reliable medical information except for the mention that my half-sister had severe asthma. My biggest worry was dementia as both my a-parents developed it. My mother is sharp and sassy at and relatively healthy at 83. Whew. My BIGGEST issue is that when medical histories are taken, the mothers are young and have yet to develop problems that we need to know about such as diabetes, high blood pressure, thyroid, etc. Considering the importance doctors place on knowing our medical histories so we can decide whether to opt for earlier tests such as colonoscopies, say, it seems both unfair and inhumane that adoptees are placed at such a disadvantage...so much so that we aren't free to make informed decisions that could save our lives.

MIA, Very well put...digging through the layers...not even being aware of one's own emotions. What a weird, chaotic way to live, huh?

BIJOU...or, Fellow Parentified "Child" How sad. Your experiences are that of, well, a slave. Salt in the Primal Wound. Exactly! Sea salt, the really big, chunky granules. And while bio children are not immune and the pain is no less, there IS something twisted about somebody going out of their way to adopt just and end up treating them like a piece of property. It drives me crazy when people assume that adoptive parents are the "best." I think whatever improvements were made in the selection process today may be cancelled out by the scary people who talk about "rescuing a child from third world poverty" and seem to have a savior complex going on. And thank you for the kind words, Bijou!

6:38 PM  
Blogger LeRoy Dissing said...

One thing I have noticed with children of narcissistic parents is that their children, even into adulthood, stay attached to their parents (albeit unhealthfully) as part of a gigantic, impossible effort to please them. I think it is part of a child abuse syndrome because in reality the parents have emotionally neglected/damaged the child into thinking their entire self-worth exists soley on meeting the needs of the parents. This makes creating their own individual identity extremely difficult because they very themselves as so enmeshed with their parents that normal, healthy separation rarely, if ever, occurs. A very sad legacy to leave your children but one they are totally oblivious to and thus, never feel accountable for.

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